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	<title>Comments for Should Be Famous--cool original music by people who don't do music for a living</title>
	<atom:link href="http://shouldbefamous.com/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://shouldbefamous.com</link>
	<description>The best music you've never heard--very cool original music by people with REAL jobs.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 09:43:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Episode 10:  LDS Music&#8211;Burn it or Build it? by Syphax</title>
		<link>http://shouldbefamous.com/2010/03/episode-10-lds-music-burn-it-or-build-it/#comment-1413</link>
		<dc:creator>Syphax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 03:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shouldbefamous.com/?p=22#comment-1413</guid>
		<description>LDS music, build it or burn it?

First of all, I mean absolutely no disrespect to Sister Call or anyone who writes or performs "LDS music."  I think they are sincere musicians and are trying their best.  It's very difficult for me to word my concerns about this without coming across as brash or arrogant or mean-spirited, and I definitely don't mean to be so.  Unfortunately I don't know how else to put it.

Sister Call mentioned that "there are Latter-day Saints who write music, but there are so many who don't get heard because it's so difficult to market."

WHY is it so difficult to market?  Because of a vicious cycle that is occurring in our community:

1) Latter-day Saint musicians feel culturally or morally obligated to favor LDS-themed music.  They buy from Deseret Book, they buy EFY CDs, etc.
2) Therefore LDS music has cornered a market demographic that doesn't hold them up to a very high standard.  Just listen to a single Jars of Clay song:  "Redemption."  That one song convinced me that "LDS music" has light years to go.  And no... they don't use the name of Deity at all in that song, and no drums.  It's about quality.
3) It's disappointing that Latter-day Saints listen to substandard songs, but the larger tragedy is that they don't even know WHY those songs are substandard.  They don't even know what to listen for.  Nobody's educating them.  So they don't expect anything more.
4) You say we shouldn't worry about creating a better "production value."  It's not about production value... it's about art and quality.  I'm not saying it doesn't exist in LDS music, it's just so narrow, so superficial, and so limited.  It's just not there yet.
5) Latter-day Saint musicians who DO appreciate deeper art feel out of place, and realize there ISN'T a market for their music.
6) Those musicians try to succeed in other venues... bars, the sleaze of pleasing record labels, tours with non-members... they have to move to Los Angeles or Seattle or Nashville or Portland... and many of them lose their way and never return to Church activity.
7) Because those artists either leave the Church or leave the "LDS market" altogether, the result is the continuation of the very substandard quality of the LDS music market!

But you know what?  There ARE plenty of Mormons who make marketable music.  Is Brandon Flowers "unmarketable?"  The Killers were voted as one of the greatest bands of the century by Q magazine.  What about Alan Sparhawk and Mimi Parker?  What about Cove Reber of Saosin?  Their last album hit #4 on the Billboard Alternative charts.  What about Cary Judd?  What about Roxy Rawson?  What about Young Sim?  What about Canoe, the band from Portland?  The answer is, these musicians just aren't considered part of LDS music, because "LDS music" is narrowly defined as what you've played here.

And it's not even that they're not writing songs with LDS themes.  Any Low fan has surely heard "The Lamb."  The song brings me to tears, and represents everything that LDS music COULD be.  Has anyone thought about what Brandon Flowers meant when he said "I've got soul but I'm not a soldier?"  It was about losing his way when he became a rock star.  Has anyone heard "See Through Rocks" by Cary Judd?  Pure art and pure beauty, and it all has to meet a higher standard because the US market requires a higher standard.

When Linescratchers was created, it was to provide support for those musicians who were completely marginalized by the LDS music community, but still wanted to be affiliated with Latter-day Saints.  I'm still surprised at how these musicians feel.  Often they think they have to choose between the Church and their music, because the Church "doesn't support or understand" their music.  It's just sad.

Maybe "LDS music" should focus less on their music being "marketable" and focus more on making art.  The market will educate itself to whatever level the musicians create.  We still haven't seen The Beatles of LDS music.  We haven't even seen the Radiohead of LDS music.  We haven't even seen the Jars of Clay of LDS music.  Why?  Because Brandon Flowers, Alan Sparhawk, and Cary Judd aren't "LDS music."

Sorry sorry sorry, I really hate saying all that because I'm a Mormon, and Mormons don't like to say negative things about others and feel bad if they hurt somebody's feelings.  But I'm not saying our "LDS musicians" CAN'T make better music!  It's in their hearts!  Deep down in there... we just need to encourage it out.  I think we've gotten a little closer with Gladys Knight.  And we need to stop defining LDS music by pushing out those on the margins.  There is an impending Rennaissance out there... when one day non-Mormons will be coming to MORMONS for our art.  There will one day be a Mormon Milton, a Mormon Shakespeare, a Mormon Lennon and McCartney.  But we have to completely raise the bar to get there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LDS music, build it or burn it?</p>
<p>First of all, I mean absolutely no disrespect to Sister Call or anyone who writes or performs &#8220;LDS music.&#8221;  I think they are sincere musicians and are trying their best.  It&#8217;s very difficult for me to word my concerns about this without coming across as brash or arrogant or mean-spirited, and I definitely don&#8217;t mean to be so.  Unfortunately I don&#8217;t know how else to put it.</p>
<p>Sister Call mentioned that &#8220;there are Latter-day Saints who write music, but there are so many who don&#8217;t get heard because it&#8217;s so difficult to market.&#8221;</p>
<p>WHY is it so difficult to market?  Because of a vicious cycle that is occurring in our community:</p>
<p>1) Latter-day Saint musicians feel culturally or morally obligated to favor LDS-themed music.  They buy from Deseret Book, they buy EFY CDs, etc.<br />
2) Therefore LDS music has cornered a market demographic that doesn&#8217;t hold them up to a very high standard.  Just listen to a single Jars of Clay song:  &#8220;Redemption.&#8221;  That one song convinced me that &#8220;LDS music&#8221; has light years to go.  And no&#8230; they don&#8217;t use the name of Deity at all in that song, and no drums.  It&#8217;s about quality.<br />
3) It&#8217;s disappointing that Latter-day Saints listen to substandard songs, but the larger tragedy is that they don&#8217;t even know WHY those songs are substandard.  They don&#8217;t even know what to listen for.  Nobody&#8217;s educating them.  So they don&#8217;t expect anything more.<br />
4) You say we shouldn&#8217;t worry about creating a better &#8220;production value.&#8221;  It&#8217;s not about production value&#8230; it&#8217;s about art and quality.  I&#8217;m not saying it doesn&#8217;t exist in LDS music, it&#8217;s just so narrow, so superficial, and so limited.  It&#8217;s just not there yet.<br />
5) Latter-day Saint musicians who DO appreciate deeper art feel out of place, and realize there ISN&#8217;T a market for their music.<br />
6) Those musicians try to succeed in other venues&#8230; bars, the sleaze of pleasing record labels, tours with non-members&#8230; they have to move to Los Angeles or Seattle or Nashville or Portland&#8230; and many of them lose their way and never return to Church activity.<br />
7) Because those artists either leave the Church or leave the &#8220;LDS market&#8221; altogether, the result is the continuation of the very substandard quality of the LDS music market!</p>
<p>But you know what?  There ARE plenty of Mormons who make marketable music.  Is Brandon Flowers &#8220;unmarketable?&#8221;  The Killers were voted as one of the greatest bands of the century by Q magazine.  What about Alan Sparhawk and Mimi Parker?  What about Cove Reber of Saosin?  Their last album hit #4 on the Billboard Alternative charts.  What about Cary Judd?  What about Roxy Rawson?  What about Young Sim?  What about Canoe, the band from Portland?  The answer is, these musicians just aren&#8217;t considered part of LDS music, because &#8220;LDS music&#8221; is narrowly defined as what you&#8217;ve played here.</p>
<p>And it&#8217;s not even that they&#8217;re not writing songs with LDS themes.  Any Low fan has surely heard &#8220;The Lamb.&#8221;  The song brings me to tears, and represents everything that LDS music COULD be.  Has anyone thought about what Brandon Flowers meant when he said &#8220;I&#8217;ve got soul but I&#8217;m not a soldier?&#8221;  It was about losing his way when he became a rock star.  Has anyone heard &#8220;See Through Rocks&#8221; by Cary Judd?  Pure art and pure beauty, and it all has to meet a higher standard because the US market requires a higher standard.</p>
<p>When Linescratchers was created, it was to provide support for those musicians who were completely marginalized by the LDS music community, but still wanted to be affiliated with Latter-day Saints.  I&#8217;m still surprised at how these musicians feel.  Often they think they have to choose between the Church and their music, because the Church &#8220;doesn&#8217;t support or understand&#8221; their music.  It&#8217;s just sad.</p>
<p>Maybe &#8220;LDS music&#8221; should focus less on their music being &#8220;marketable&#8221; and focus more on making art.  The market will educate itself to whatever level the musicians create.  We still haven&#8217;t seen The Beatles of LDS music.  We haven&#8217;t even seen the Radiohead of LDS music.  We haven&#8217;t even seen the Jars of Clay of LDS music.  Why?  Because Brandon Flowers, Alan Sparhawk, and Cary Judd aren&#8217;t &#8220;LDS music.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sorry sorry sorry, I really hate saying all that because I&#8217;m a Mormon, and Mormons don&#8217;t like to say negative things about others and feel bad if they hurt somebody&#8217;s feelings.  But I&#8217;m not saying our &#8220;LDS musicians&#8221; CAN&#8217;T make better music!  It&#8217;s in their hearts!  Deep down in there&#8230; we just need to encourage it out.  I think we&#8217;ve gotten a little closer with Gladys Knight.  And we need to stop defining LDS music by pushing out those on the margins.  There is an impending Rennaissance out there&#8230; when one day non-Mormons will be coming to MORMONS for our art.  There will one day be a Mormon Milton, a Mormon Shakespeare, a Mormon Lennon and McCartney.  But we have to completely raise the bar to get there.</p>
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		<title>Comment on About by Syphax</title>
		<link>http://shouldbefamous.com/about/#comment-1411</link>
		<dc:creator>Syphax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 21:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shouldbefamous.com/blog?page_id=2#comment-1411</guid>
		<description>A lot of good work you're doing here.  I'm sincerely impressed.  My Uncle John told me about this site a while back and I tried unsuccessfully to get a hold of y'all (I think I got the email address wrong).  We're always looking for reviewers and interviewers at Linescratchers.  Our podcast isn't as frequent as yours, it seems, but I have quite a library of music sent to me personally by dozens of artists.  Let me know if I can do anything for you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot of good work you&#8217;re doing here.  I&#8217;m sincerely impressed.  My Uncle John told me about this site a while back and I tried unsuccessfully to get a hold of y&#8217;all (I think I got the email address wrong).  We&#8217;re always looking for reviewers and interviewers at Linescratchers.  Our podcast isn&#8217;t as frequent as yours, it seems, but I have quite a library of music sent to me personally by dozens of artists.  Let me know if I can do anything for you!</p>
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		<title>Comment on About by Bill Jackson</title>
		<link>http://shouldbefamous.com/about/#comment-1406</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:16:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shouldbefamous.com/blog?page_id=2#comment-1406</guid>
		<description>Ginger St. James. Now there's someone who should be famous. A local gal who is taking the Hamilton, Toronto area of Ontario Canada by storm.
Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1Zjex8VaeU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNmF8nzzPYo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ginger St. James. Now there&#8217;s someone who should be famous. A local gal who is taking the Hamilton, Toronto area of Ontario Canada by storm.<br />
Enjoy.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1Zjex8VaeU" >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1Zjex8VaeU</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNmF8nzzPYo" >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNmF8nzzPYo</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Episode 7: R Ahrens by Skye</title>
		<link>http://shouldbefamous.com/2009/07/episode-7-r-ahrens/#comment-1404</link>
		<dc:creator>Skye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 15:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shouldbefamous.com/?p=16#comment-1404</guid>
		<description>Wow. I knew you were going to do a podcast on these guys, but hadn't heard their music before. I love it! I feel like it was sort of before its time. They sound like all the popular indy bands now. I'm also curious to know if one can still get their CD or recordings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. I knew you were going to do a podcast on these guys, but hadn&#8217;t heard their music before. I love it! I feel like it was sort of before its time. They sound like all the popular indy bands now. I&#8217;m also curious to know if one can still get their CD or recordings.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Episode 8.5:  by Skye</title>
		<link>http://shouldbefamous.com/2009/09/backwards-and-sped-up/#comment-1403</link>
		<dc:creator>Skye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 23:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shouldbefamous.com/?p=18#comment-1403</guid>
		<description>Well, that was really fun for me to hear myself singing backward. It was like hearing my own voice for the first time (ever done a painting and then looked at it in the mirror? It helps cleanse your mental palette so you can see, for a moment, what it looks like to others - and helps you fix mistakes you might not see otherwise. Anyway, it was like that).

I really love listening to most of these things backward. It changes the melody to something that reminds me of something celtic or from middle-earth (yes, I just made a reference to Lord of the Rings. Forgive me.) (Or maybe the celtic thing is because I just listened to the Fiddlesticks 'cast). In any case, I do love the freshness of it, and it makes me want to use backward melodies to write songs, for a different, more haunting feel.

I don't, personally, love the sped-up-ness of them. I don't mind it on some, like the Walkenhorst stuff sounded good sped-up to me. But I think a) I have a really hard time listening to sped-up vocals without all the negative chipmunk associations tainting it, and b) for some songs it's moving too fast to really catch the changes and grab onto a melody. The backward thing is so beautiful because it does things with melodies that are unusual, and thus take a few more seconds for my brain to process.

just me...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, that was really fun for me to hear myself singing backward. It was like hearing my own voice for the first time (ever done a painting and then looked at it in the mirror? It helps cleanse your mental palette so you can see, for a moment, what it looks like to others - and helps you fix mistakes you might not see otherwise. Anyway, it was like that).</p>
<p>I really love listening to most of these things backward. It changes the melody to something that reminds me of something celtic or from middle-earth (yes, I just made a reference to Lord of the Rings. Forgive me.) (Or maybe the celtic thing is because I just listened to the Fiddlesticks &#8216;cast). In any case, I do love the freshness of it, and it makes me want to use backward melodies to write songs, for a different, more haunting feel.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t, personally, love the sped-up-ness of them. I don&#8217;t mind it on some, like the Walkenhorst stuff sounded good sped-up to me. But I think a) I have a really hard time listening to sped-up vocals without all the negative chipmunk associations tainting it, and b) for some songs it&#8217;s moving too fast to really catch the changes and grab onto a melody. The backward thing is so beautiful because it does things with melodies that are unusual, and thus take a few more seconds for my brain to process.</p>
<p>just me&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Episode 9: Bob Walkenhorst by Ron</title>
		<link>http://shouldbefamous.com/2009/10/episode-9-bob-walkenhorst/#comment-1401</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:09:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shouldbefamous.com/?p=19#comment-1401</guid>
		<description>Clayton, I want to congratulate you on such a touching interview.  Your really did your homework.  Also your insight and take on Bob's songs was refreshing and heartfelt.
Thank you for helping share Bob's true talent with a wider audience.  He is now "famous".
Keep up the good work, and don't lose your passion!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clayton, I want to congratulate you on such a touching interview.  Your really did your homework.  Also your insight and take on Bob&#8217;s songs was refreshing and heartfelt.<br />
Thank you for helping share Bob&#8217;s true talent with a wider audience.  He is now &#8220;famous&#8221;.<br />
Keep up the good work, and don&#8217;t lose your passion!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Episode 9: Bob Walkenhorst by Neal</title>
		<link>http://shouldbefamous.com/2009/10/episode-9-bob-walkenhorst/#comment-1398</link>
		<dc:creator>Neal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 03:48:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shouldbefamous.com/?p=19#comment-1398</guid>
		<description>Clayton, what a well-done interview. Thoughtful questions, both about Bob and his music. I've been a fan since I caught Small Circles on MTV back around 1988 or so. Has there ever been a better songwriter than a guy who wrote "The generation that would change the world is still looking for it's car keys" ? Maybe Springsteen, back in the 70's, early 80's, before he nosedived into the political arena. 

Walkenhorst and the Rainmakers (Steve Phillips, Pat Tomek, Rich Ruth) were a rare jewel. My family and I journey up to KC every summer to see Bob, we're so glad he's still writing new stuff and performing. Keep it up, Bob!

I only wish he were more famous so more folks could share the music and enjoy it as much as we do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clayton, what a well-done interview. Thoughtful questions, both about Bob and his music. I&#8217;ve been a fan since I caught Small Circles on MTV back around 1988 or so. Has there ever been a better songwriter than a guy who wrote &#8220;The generation that would change the world is still looking for it&#8217;s car keys&#8221; ? Maybe Springsteen, back in the 70&#8217;s, early 80&#8217;s, before he nosedived into the political arena. </p>
<p>Walkenhorst and the Rainmakers (Steve Phillips, Pat Tomek, Rich Ruth) were a rare jewel. My family and I journey up to KC every summer to see Bob, we&#8217;re so glad he&#8217;s still writing new stuff and performing. Keep it up, Bob!</p>
<p>I only wish he were more famous so more folks could share the music and enjoy it as much as we do.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Episode 9: Bob Walkenhorst by Bev McInis</title>
		<link>http://shouldbefamous.com/2009/10/episode-9-bob-walkenhorst/#comment-1397</link>
		<dc:creator>Bev McInis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 01:12:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shouldbefamous.com/?p=19#comment-1397</guid>
		<description>The music just gets better.  I wish we could catch a show.  Bob is the kind of person we would have as a friend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The music just gets better.  I wish we could catch a show.  Bob is the kind of person we would have as a friend.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Episode 8.5:  by Shiloh</title>
		<link>http://shouldbefamous.com/2009/09/backwards-and-sped-up/#comment-1395</link>
		<dc:creator>Shiloh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 00:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shouldbefamous.com/?p=18#comment-1395</guid>
		<description>You have way to much time on your hands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have way to much time on your hands.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Episode 9: Bob Walkenhorst by Britt</title>
		<link>http://shouldbefamous.com/2009/10/episode-9-bob-walkenhorst/#comment-1394</link>
		<dc:creator>Britt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shouldbefamous.com/?p=19#comment-1394</guid>
		<description>Well, his stuff grew on me. Some of it's a bit to choppy and twangy for my tastes, some of it belongs on a Chevy commercial. And some of it is darn good. I like his comment, "I'm about as famous as I should be." I think this really means that he's content with his level of "fame". This makes him a happy musician and we all need more of those in the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, his stuff grew on me. Some of it&#8217;s a bit to choppy and twangy for my tastes, some of it belongs on a Chevy commercial. And some of it is darn good. I like his comment, &#8220;I&#8217;m about as famous as I should be.&#8221; I think this really means that he&#8217;s content with his level of &#8220;fame&#8221;. This makes him a happy musician and we all need more of those in the world.</p>
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